Ep011: What a Good Broker Relationship is… and What it Isn’t

Chris McAllister
Sorry, you ready? Okay, welcome to another episode of the Connect Practice Track and Grow podcast. I’m here today with my good friend and new podcast partner, Laci LeBlanc. So Laci and I have been working together this year and her job is to get all this content out of my head that I’ve been building up and carrying around the last few years. So it’s been a great collaboration and she’s going to help keep me on track with these podcasts as we move forward. So today we’re going to be discussing the importance of good broker relationships and how to identify, you know, the characteristics of a really good, positive broker relationships, but also talk about some of the negative broker relationships and what those look like. Great.

Laci LeBlanc
Yeah, I’m excited to be here, chris, thanks for having me Excuse me. You know I find this content so fascinating, as I grew up in a family full of real estate professionals, so let’s get into it. First things first. Why are we talking about broker relationships today? Why is it so important?

Chris McAllister
I think a lot of times, you know, like everything else in life, you know some people choose a broker relationship, you know, almost as a task that needs to be completed or, you know, almost like a transaction, whereas the very best broker, you know relationships are truly a good relationship, not just a business relationship but a personal relationship and, just like any relationship, they can be positive or negative, depend on what the two parties want and how much work they’re willing to put into that relationship. So my goal is to help you avoid a bad relationship with your broker or your potential broker. But you know, sometimes that happens and that’s part of the business and one of the other things to touch base today on sometimes we real estate agents stay in bad relationships with brokers longer than we should, and we’ll touch base on a few reasons why that is.

Laci LeBlanc
So what are the characteristics of a good broker relationship? What are some examples of good broker relationship?

Chris McAllister
Well, I think one of the best examples of a good broker relationship is when the broker and the agent have the same views, the same outlook on the business, right how to approach the business, the practice of real estate. You know similar goals or at least understanding of each other’s goals and desires. So it really comes down to how do you approach the business of real estate? And if you need a broker, you know maybe you’re newer or maybe you’re trying to get to the next level you need a broker. You know that you want as a mentor. You know you want to find a broker that is passionate about mentorship, but not all of us are. Some people, some brokers, are more focused on training, especially with new agents. Some are not. So you’ve really got to be clear on what your goals are for your personal business and what you’re looking for in a perfect match. So let’s say you have, you’ve got big goals right. You want to get to a big number or you want to grow your business from you know where you are today to something bigger, and you know that could be as simple as you know. Maybe you’ve been in the business for two or three years, maybe you’re grossing $20,000, $30,000 a year and you want to get to that magic threshold of $100,000 a year, right, so you want to get, you want to find a broker who is going to be able to help you make that move from where you are to where you want to be. Maybe you’re already at $100,000 plus and you want to become, you know, a team leader or, you know, run a brokerage within a brokerage and you’re really a high achiever with a lot of ambition. You know you’re on the go. You want to be, you know, more independent, you know.

So not every broker is comfortable with that arrangement. So that’s where you’re at. You may want to, you know. Obviously you want to find a broker that is going to be a good fit for you there, but partnering with a broker who understands, you know, where you are today, what your long-term goals are, then remember that’s he can’t do that for you or she can’t do that for you. You’re the only one that can define what your goals are. So if you aren’t sure yet where you want to go, what you want to be and what your practice to look like, I really urge you to get clear on that, you know, before you go out shopping for a broker. But again, if you partner with a broker who understands where you are today, your goals, long-term, short-term, and, most importantly, they share the same mindset as you do, you know there’s probably, you probably will, I almost guarantee you’ll find a broker that matches up with how you approach the business.

Laci LeBlanc
Well, that all sounds great, right, All of these concepts where you’re in a relationship with a like-minded person and they’re mentoring you or they’re filling in where you have weaknesses and you know they’re maximizing your strengths. But it’s all a little abstract, probably for some folks out there. So can you provide an example? Can you provide, you know, an experience you’ve had with a positive broker-agent relationship, just to kind of make these things more tangible?

Chris McAllister
Yeah, so I got my license back in 2001. And some of you know my last I say my last real job. I was running the Target stores in Long Island in Queens, new York, and I didn’t become an entrepreneur and a real estate agent until 2001. I was 40 years old at the time, so I started a little bit later. But I ended up moving my family and I back to Springfield, ohio, where I grew up and I joined the local, very well established mom and pop real estate brokerage in Springfield Ohio and you know, I was brand new. I was scared to death. I didn’t know where my next paycheck was coming from. The girls were, you know, young in school and what I needed was a way to learn the business, get my foot in the door and figure out what this you know, the basics of the business were all about.

Now, this was back in the day. So, you know there were three partners and a couple of other really high performing listing agents and they all sat, you know, around the perimeter of the office and then there was a bullpen in the middle where we would all come in with and do floor time. You know. You know a couple of hour shifts throughout the week and the idea was the listing agents generated all the leads, more leads than they could handle. So those buyer calls were pushed into the bullpen and of course we were happy to work on a 50-50 split and the brokers were thrilled because, you know, they had basically a core group of assistants there in the office helping sell their listings.

And it was great because I took every open house opportunity I could get from those listing brokers. I spent time in the office. I learned from them that first two years as a real estate agent at that company really gave me the basics of not only what I needed to do as a real estate agent, how to practice, how to write contracts, how to fill out a listing contract, all the things you have to know to just be a basic competent practitioner. It was an absolutely perfect relationship that gave me a super firm foundation. You know, the first two years I was there for the rest of my career, so to me that was a perfect relationship.

Laci LeBlanc
It sounds like exactly what you needed at the time, which is what I’m hearing from. You is the key. It’s different for everybody, but you have to figure out what you need and a broker that aligns with that. So let’s talk about the other side of the coin, which is a bad broker relationship. Can you tell me about? How do you know you’re in a bad broker relationship, or what does a bad broker relationship look like?

Chris McAllister
I think the key indicator of a bad broker relationship is when your core value is done aligned. If your approach to the business is different than your broker’s approach to the business, there’s going to be some friction. So, for example, if you’re someone who is transactionally minded, somebody who’s focused on doing 300 transactions a year or whatever the number is, and you just want to get every single opportunity to check those monthly closing goals off, then you want a broker who shares your transactional mindset and will help you meet those goals. If that’s, you want a broker who sees the world the same way as you do Now.

If you happen to be partnered with a broker who’s more relationship focused, more focused on making connections with past clients, other agents, future clients, etc. They’re clearly not going to have the same goals or daily routines or habits or just general outlook on life and businesses. You do so when you’re focused on if you’re focused on making the next sale and collecting the next paycheck and again, there’s nothing wrong with that they might be more focused on the behaviors that are necessary to help build lasting referral based relationships. They’re going to be more interested in making connections. Now, both of you want to make a living right, but it’s two very clearly diverse paths to get there, and I know it’s a simplification, but what it comes down to is, if your transaction focused and your broker is more relationship focused, it’s probably not going to be a good fit and it’s going to lead to a situation where not only you’re frustrated, but you know your broker is going to be frustrated with you as well. Yeah, so what I’m?

Laci LeBlanc
hearing. I’m very encouraged by, because I think that in the workplace and I’m using foot fingers that you can’t see, but what we’re moving towards is a better work-life balance, is a better, you know, understanding that people work to live and not live to work. So what I hear is that you know a bad broker relationship can really make your whole life miserable, not just make it hard for you, you know, to make a living, because it is a really intense relationship that you have with your broker. It’s not like it’s not even necessarily like you go into the office every day and there’s your boss there. You know lots of people go into the office and have a boss that they don’t necessarily get along with and stay in that job, but this seems like it has the ability to really impact your entire life.

Chris McAllister
Yeah, I mean, if you’re at a regular W2 job and you have a bad relationship with your boss, at least you’re still getting paid right. If you’re an independent contractor and you know everything that you do makes or break your ability to make next month’s mortgage payment and your approach to the business is different than the guy who holds your license, it can cause a lot of turmoil in your life. And you know we as entrepreneurs and independent contractors and people who work on commission, you know we have a lot of different sorts of stresses and anxieties that a regular W2 person does and quite frankly we’re different. But again, if I’m in a regular job and I’m not happy with my boss, at least I’m still getting paid. If I’m a realtor and I’m not happy with my broker or brokerage situation, sometimes it makes it hard to get paid. So this truly is financial and emotional, even psychological ramifications.

There’s a couple of other things that might foster a bad relationship.

So you know, if you’re a new agent, that needs a lot of mentoring but your broker isn’t necessarily, you know, wired that way or has a different focus that’s not going to work out. Now that doesn’t mean that the broker or the manager of the company doesn’t have. You know, somebody in the organization that’s more wired that way to help you. You know. You know I’m not always the very clearly not the person to sit down and show somebody you know how to write a contract, but we have people in our organization that love doing that and are willing to sit down and mentor every new agent that comes through and you know, if they want sitting on their first couple of listing appointments, sit with them when they meet their first buyer, write a contract or whatever. So your broker per se may not be the person who does that, but if that’s something that is important to you, you definitely want to choose a broker and brokerage who has that capability or someone with that sort of sensibility in their organization.

Laci LeBlanc
Yeah, absolutely so. Can you share, like we did with the positive broker relationship? We talked about your own initial experience in real estate, to kind of illustrate a positive broker relationship, Can you share an example of a negative broker relationship that you’ve experienced or someone close to you?

Chris McAllister
Yeah, so I’m going to go back to my personal experience. So you know I was at my mom and pop the first couple of years and you know I was super ambitious and smarter than everybody. I knew that’s a joke. And you know, two years after I got my agent license, I immediately got my broker license in Ohio and impulsively bought up three rematch franchises and that was in 2003. I had a bad partner relationship, you know. I made an impulsive decision. I, you know I picked rematch, which has a ton of great qualities, and I learned a tremendous amount. But that was in 2003. Then we had the crash of 2007, 2008.

And basically by 2009-10, I had managed to divest myself of my rematch responsibilities and I went back to work with my original mom and pop brokerage. So this time the relationship was a little bit different. You know, the idea was I thought that there was a chance that I could, you know, potentially buy that company or work closely with the three owners and help grow it beyond Springfield, ohio. And I ended up with my own office downtown, separate from their original office, and I brought all my agents over. I kept the core team, but all my agents went to work at their office, and you know I was super independent. I had my own thing going, I had my own business and that was all fine and dandy and it went kind of well for the first few months. But it wasn’t too long before I realized that the three owners weren’t on the same page about transitioning the business or any sort of succession plan. And then, you know, they all had kids that got their licenses or in the business and it became more and more clear that this wasn’t going to be the type of growth opportunity for me that I wanted. And you know my whole thing is I’d loved working, you know, with buyers and sellers, investors and all of that. But at the end of the day, you know, I’m passionate and excited about growing a brand and I was already thinking about what, you know, roost real estate would look like. And before too long it was just clear that my, what I wanted out of the business was completely different than what they wanted out of the business. They basically wanted to keep it the way it was forever, keep it close to the vest, keep it in the family, don’t try new things, don’t try to expand. And I wanted something bigger than that, even if I couldn’t articulate it at the time. So I think that’s a good example of where, as we grow through different stages of our career and our personal capabilities and development, that you know paths can diverge and you know it’s a natural part of life.

But you know, at our company I try very hard to make sure that there’s always a next opportunity for every agent. You know I want to see a new agent get to that 100 grand a year level within the first couple of years. If that agent wants to go beyond that and they want to hire their first assistant, I want to set them up for that. If they want to start to build a team around them, I want to support them in that. If you know they want to open their own satellite office, that’s great. If they’ve grown into that. And you know, if they want to buy a Roost Real Estate company or a Lucky Town Real Estate company franchise someday and be their own boss and their own owner, then I’d be thrilled to support that.

But our goal is that we have the people and capability to support all of our agents at whatever stage of their career. And so I think I went way beyond your question, lacey. But I think it’s important to sort of illustrate how you know relationships. Can you know, sometimes diverge over time and turn into a not great relationship.

Laci LeBlanc
No, I think that’s fantastic. It actually brings up another question that I have. So obviously there are good brokers out there for everybody, right?

There’s a broker for everyone, regardless of your style or how you want to work or what your goals are. So, knowing that, now, why do agents stay in these bad relationships? Like I said, I come from a family of real estate professionals, so I have seen from the outside looking in some of these relationships and I know that people who are in bad relationships with their brokers don’t always leave. Why is that?

Chris McAllister
So I’m a bit older than you, but there was a hit song by 1975, when I was listening to the radio all the time in the car by Neal Sudakha, called Breaking Up is Hard to Do. Now it was a pop song. He first had a hit with it in 62 and then it was a giant hit again in 75 and it was just constantly on the radio. And the fact is, breaking up is hard to do and whether it’s with your romantic partner or whatever, it’s the same with your broker. So it’s just not something that’s fun, it’s not something that’s easy and sometimes it sucks. So why do people stay? Well, there’s financial reasons. In most states every state that I’m aware of when an agent takes a listing, they’re taking that listing on behalf of the broker. The broker owns the listing and if you’re a strong listing agent with a big inventory and a steady stream of listings coming in, that’s great. But it’s also great for your broker and legally, if you and your broker have a falling out, they do not have to release your listing inventory back to you. It’s theirs. They can choose to close it themselves and take the money. They can choose to pass it on to another agent and split it with them, but legally they don’t have to release those listings and so obviously if you’re in that situation it makes it hard to leave because you’re leaving, not you know, you’re going to keep your long term cash because hopefully it was your relationships that you’ve had with those listings, not your broker’s relationship, you know, with those listings. But at a minimum you’re going to lose short term cash because you’ve got closings that you work so hard to get, spend a lot of your own money and time to get, that you’re not going to be able to cash in on or be rewarded for. So there’s another thing out there that goes on and I don’t know that it’s happening so much now as we’re in a transition into business. But you know, three, four years ago you know we had some of the big franchise brokers coming in and writing gigantic checks to productive agents to you know, like an upfront bounty, you know, to sign on for a two, three, four, five year, you know, plus commitment to their brokerage. So I’m not seeing that as much now, but there was a lot of that going on not too long ago and I think that also ends up walking in some agents to a broker relationship, you know and whether they wanted to leave or not. Legally it makes it very tough financially because they’d have to pay some money back. So financial reasons is a real thing. The other reason I think people stay in bad relationships with their broker, and maybe it’s not bad, maybe it’s just not perfect right. So you know, bad and good are pretty extreme polarities there.

But a lot of agents don’t have a whole lot of personal branding. They’re not comfortable with talking about what they bring to the business, what they do for their clients, what’s in it for their clients that’s different than what any other agent in town or, specifically, any other agent in their office. And they’ve been successful, or maybe less so successful, because they’ve been relying on the brokerage marketing or the brokerage reputation or the brokerage value proposition as opposed to developing their own right. And it could be as simple. Sometimes it’s branding, sometimes it’s not so much the graphic design and so forth, but it is that too, a huge degree. Now I want to see Allabarie. I want Roost Real Estate Company to be the best supportive brand partner for every agent that we have and every agent. That is a good fit for us. But it’s a support structure, it’s a boost. Our goal is to help every agent develop their own personal brand that stands out in the market, that makes them an independent business owner who knows their value and professionally gets paid for their value. That’s the key.

So why would people stay in a less than optimum relationship? Well, I think many times they’re scared to death to leave what’s worked right. They’re afraid to leave what they’ve got even though they know in their hearts that there is something better out there. So the lack of personal branding and a reliance on the 100% reliance on the brand is a reason why people often stick around. And then the final thing and I don’t care if you’re the most ruthless, hard-nosed business person in the world breaking up is hard to do and many times, if we’re not close friends with our brokers, we definitely have a professional relationship. It’s very unusual that there’s a massive shouting fight falling out. That happens. But when you have a close working relationship with someone, it’s human nature that you have some feelings, and I mean I don’t care who you are, and sometimes you can enjoy working with someone and lose sight of whether the business relationship is a good one.

So that’s probably the third thing, the biggest reason why agents stay in a tough relationship, or I should say less than perfect relationship, because they feel an obligation to their broker or the person who brought them up and through the business, and there’s nothing wrong with that. I challenge myself. We’ve got some fantastic long-term relationship with our agents and they’re the best, and I’m so grateful that they’ve been with us for years and years. But I’m constantly challenging myself and I honestly tried and constantly challenged them. What’s next? What can we do differently? What do you need today? And I’m hoping that asking those questions is that great first step and then being in a position to provide additional opportunities helps cement that relationship for the long term. But those are the three big reasons why I think they stick around. It could be financial, it could be scared of going off on their own because they don’t have a personal brand, and then it comes down to the emotional aspect of being close to somebody that you’ve worked with for a long period of time.

Laci LeBlanc
So we’re human, is what you’re saying. We’re human and we have human needs and emotions. Real estate agents are people too, is what I’m hearing.

Chris McAllister
Even the transaction-focused ones are people too. That’s exactly right.

Laci LeBlanc
Yeah, Well, the other thing I’m hearing that I was going to address, but you addressed it for me, is these relationships are ever changing, Just like our needs. I think about people coming into the business and then expanding their family, or having a family that needs taking care of, or just different goals, like you said. And so finding a broker who, like you said about Roost, is willing to grow with their agents seems like it’s really important. So for a new broker that’s looking for a broker relationship, that’s definitely something to look for.

But for seasoned brokers maybe, who aren’t are in these less than perfect situations, the phrase that keeps coming to my mind is don’t cling to a mistake just because you’ve spent a long time making it. It’s never too late to get out of a bad broker relationship or even just a less than perfect broker relationship. Even with somebody you love and care about and who is somebody you consider a friend, who has maybe helped you come up through the business, it’s still possible to prioritize your goals and your family’s livelihood and your dreams. So how do you get out of a less than perfect situation with a broker without necessarily burning bridges or having to refinance your house or whatever it is? What are some tips for agents who maybe are ready to move on but are hesitant to do so?

Chris McAllister
Well, you’re right, we all suffer. Most of us suffer from I think they call it some cost fallacy. We make an investment, we buy something, we keep putting money into it and nothing changes, but we’re scared to move on because we still hope against hope that that bet’s going to pay off. Right, that gamble’s going to pay off, I’m going to win all my money back. I mean, sometimes you’ve got to be honest with yourself and be self-aware enough to know, wow, I’ve put a lot of time and effort, I’ve tried to sit down, I’ve tried to put my thoughts on paper, I’ve tried to ask, I’ve tried to do this, I’ve tried to do that and it’s not working and it’s time to go. But practically, if you’re a big listing agent and your broker is not going to release your listings, you could still negotiate that transfer with your broker. You should still try. Maybe there’s a compromise where maybe they’ll let you take the listings, release them to your new brokerage and maybe they’ll be happy to accept the referral fee versus taking the entire listing.

I think with us, right or wrong, I have never, if an agent wanted to leave and it breaks my heart every time somebody leaves. You know it’s not cost on the broker side too. Even if we know it’s a bad relationship, we still hate to have people leave. But I can tell you at our brokerage, you know I don’t want to make it any harder than it is. So you know we tell our agents that you know if your owner requests to be released from their listing contract, you know I’ll sign it. So we personally don’t do that right or wrong. I mean, obviously, if somebody’s leaving the business, that’s different. But if somebody’s moving on to something else, we don’t try to hold the listings. But if your broker has every right to so, you need to have an adult conversation with them.

As far as the branding challenges, you know you’ve got to find a way a coach, a mentor, a service, you know something to focus on establishing a personal brand. And even if it takes a little time to start building up your personal brand against the backdrop of your brokerage brand, you’ve got to decide okay, I’m going to do this, there’s the goal. And then you’re going to have to get some help, learn some capabilities, put some milestones in place and figure out what your personal brand is going to look like and how you’re going to start establishing yourself in the marketplace with that personal brand and maybe it’s as simple as a super signature on your emails. You know, maybe it’s. You know if you’re doing just list of cards or you’re doing, you know, monthly items of value, that you know you start to highlight what makes you different from other agents in a bite-size branded approach. We’re not trying to, you know, walk away from the brokerage. You can’t do that. You know your personal brand cannot be more prominent than your broker’s brand. But you don’t want your broker brand to completely supersede who you are as a value-added agent.

And as far as the friendship thing goes, you know everything is hard. It comes down to an open and honest conversation. You know thank them. You know I’m sure you had some good that came out of it. Let them know that. You know as hard as it can be and unless your broker is just a real jerk, you know, just keep in mind that they’re people too, we’re people too, and you know this is as hard for them as it is for you. But this is a business and you need to do what’s right for you.

Laci LeBlanc
So, so good broker relationships do exist. I hope that this has been as educational and inspirational for folks out there who are looking for a broker, who are in a relationship not to leave necessarily, but to push themselves and to to push their broker to be the person they need for them to be in the business, because I think this is I don’t know this is news to any agents out there, but it might be a good reminder, right that live to work, that you work to live, and that this good broker relationship can improve your quality of life just kind of across the board.

Chris McAllister
Yeah, yeah, the quality of life they could be in a bad relationship. You know, when you wake up in the middle of the night and you’re thinking about that damn problem, you know, take that nail out of the side of your head is important. So if you’re in a bad relationship, my advice is let’s figure out a way to, you know, to get you out of it. But you know, having that positive relationship, or at least one where you’re not in constant conflict and friction, it’s essential to your success as a real estate professional and your happiness as a person in a real estate professional. So again, you got to understand characteristics of both positive, negative relationships. You’re going to have to do some, you know, solid, quiet time, thinking. You’re going to have to make a plan and only you can decide where you want to go next and how you’re going to get there. So, lacey, thank you very much.

This was fun our first time out, looking forward to our next one and to everybody out there. Thank you for listening to today’s episode of the Connect Practice Track and Grow podcast, and I don’t care if you’re a new realtor out there in the world or you’ve been out there for a long time. I would love to have you as a guest on this podcast.

So if you’re interested in coming on and having a you know, 20 to 60 minute, 30 to 60 minute coaching session and letting us record it for the podcast, I would be thrilled to have you, and who knows, maybe Laci would even join us. So just click on be a guest.